VERONICA LUEKEN IS A MARRIED WOMAN, a mother of five children, (a grandmother, in fact) and she is in her early 60's at this present time. Up until June of 1968, She lived the life of an ordinary New York City housewife, with her husband Arthur, a retired purchasing agent, and their daughter and four sons. On the day that Robert F. Kennedy was shot to death in California by an assassin, Veronica experienced a perfume of roses when she responded to a radio appeal for prayers for the dying Senator.

A short time later, St. Theresa the Little Flower (who has always been identified with roses, since her most famous promise, often quoted was - "After my death, I will let fall a shower of roses from heaven'' ) appeared to her, in her home, and the vision was shared by Veronica's son Raymond, who was 10 years old at the time. Her early visions seemed to be a sort of preparation for the coming of Our Lady, who announced to her in 1970 that She wanted Rosary Vigils held outdoors. on the eves of all the great feast days of the Catholic Church. These Vigils were to be held on the grounds of the old St. Robert Bellarmine's Church in the district of Bayside Hills, a division of Queens. one of the five boroughs of New York City.

Our Lady announced that She wanted a shrine established there, and that She was to be invoked under the title of OUR LADY OF THE ROSES. MARY HELP OF MOTHERS. She promised if these Vigils would be faithfully kept, despite weather conditions and disturbances. She would appear to Veronica at each of the Vigils, and give heavenly messages of worldwide importance. She asked that the Holy Rosary be said continuously, aloud by all the pilgrims, during the Vigil. Jesus also appears and gives His own Message later in the evening. And so, since June 18, 1970, thousands of people from all over the world have come to attend these Vigils, which are held in the open air despite all weather conditions. During this time, several hundred messages have been transmitted, with Veronica acting as a ''voice box" - repeating the words from Heaven.

In June of 1975, because of the objections of the residents around St. Robert Bellarmine's Church to the prayer Vigils, the location of the Vigils was changed. Veronica was instructed by Our Lady to accept an offer she had received from the Police Chief to use the Vatican Pavilion at the old World's Fair Grounds in Flushing Meadows - Corona Park. This is the site where Michelangelo's work of art - the "Pieta", was exhibited during the 1965 World's Fair, and where Pope Paul VI, during his visit to New York on Oct. 4, 1965, stopped for a visit and gave a blessing. Veronica was told that this site would only be temporary, and that they would eventually be allowed to return to the original site.

The Messages reveal the general state of evil in the world, the state of corruption within the Catholic Church, the evil within the Vatican itself, and the necessity of worldwide atonement to the Eternal Father to avoid chastisements, which, if not mitigated by universal penance and return to God and His Divine Laws, will be terrible beyond comprehension. They warn that a worldwide Warning, Miracle, and fiery Chastisement in the form of a "Ball of Redemption" -- a comet which will strike the earth, and along with World War III and other disasters. will remove three-quarters of mankind - are very near at hand.

DEAR READERS, CONVERSATIONS WITH JESUS Book I is finally ready. After several years of patient waiting for this long announced publication, we are sure this is indeed welcome news. There will also be a second book sometime in the future, as stated in one of the Vigil messages.

The book concerns the private talks Veronica had with Jesus in the early years in the form of locutions - that is she only heard Jesus' voice, without actually seeing Him in bodily form, as she does on the Apparition grounds at a Vigil.

Much of, if not most of the book, consists of Veronica's own explanation of the background circumstances surrounding these talks, which is a necessary backdrop to understanding the story.

We have added to the book a general synopsis of the whole Bayside story, which is very important for any new readers not familiar with Veronica and the Message from Heaven.

Being that the text is taken from audio cassette tapes, there are many digressions from the main story. To better illustrate these, we have typeset them in italics and within parenthesis.

Interspersed throughout the text are photographs, many taken during the early years of the Apparitions, which are historical documents in themselves. These were chosen because of their close connection to the narrative, and not because of any qualitative merit of their own.

Also added to the book, in the centerfold, are six outstanding miraculous photographs, all taken at different Vigils by different people using different makes of cameras. We have used a pink background for the photos, as this is Jesus' color. The sky turns a pink color in Veronica's visions, which is her sign that Jesus is about to appear. These photos are among the signs spoken of later in Conversations with Jesus that Our Lord promised to give as confirmation of the divine origin of the Bayside Revelations. The pictures were chosen because their evident supernatural character shines through them at first glance, even without the interpretation supplied by the seer Veronica, who alone is qualified to officially give Heaven's meaning.

Prudence and other important considerations dictate that only initials be used for many of the names mentioned in the text. For some, only the first name and the first initial of the last name is given.

Concerning Father McL as the Antichrist, one is to bear in mind that Our Lady has many times stated that no person on earth is immune from attack - and even takeover (possession) by satan - and that also applies to the clergy. The priests are subject to the greatest onslaughts, and so, many prayers are needed for them. Antichrist is not one person but a general term referring to satan and his agents released from hell who work through persons, places and things in order to destroy God's Church upon earth in these latter days. Subsequent messages have revealed that Lucifer left the body of Father McL in 1975 and has since entered the leader of the group called Wicca, which is the international organization of witches and warlocks (see the 1977 messages for further details). Our Lady explains that Lucifer in the body of a man is the main individual spirit of Antichrist.

Having made these clarifications, we feel you are ready to go forward with the reading of the book. We trust that it be as inspiring to you as it was to us.

The Editor, May 13, 1986

AT LAST HEAVEN HAS GIVEN ME the incentive and the opportunity, through my illness, to be able to bring to the world the book that Our Lady has often asked for, called Conversations with Jesus.

It will take some time to place this all on tape, as I have to review the four books now that I have collected, back since 1970. I had to look a long time to find them. In moving about, I thought one had been lost forever; but no, it is God's plan. And it is now time for writing the conversations with Jesus.

Back in 1970, 1971, and '72 and '73, during those early years many, many wonderful, miraculous manifestations took place.

All of these writings from Jesus, Our Lady and Saint Michael are on loose-leaf paper in loose-leaf folders. The four books I speak of are four loose-leaf folders.

Veronica Lueken

Long Island, N.Y.

March 31, 1980

THE FIRST NOTE I HAVE come across brings back a great deal of happy memories. Now this one, this page, is dated January 23, 1971.

When I lived in Bayside, there was a young girl living in the apartment to the right of me upstairs, named Carol M. Carol was a young girl with three children to support, living by herself, the second apartment over, in our garden complex.

Now Heaven works in most mysterious ways. Heaven does seem to choose people who are not what the average individual would expect to look for or be like for their mission. Carol M. was one of the first - what you would say - writers for Heaven, in the year 1971. You must understand that from '68 on, when Saint Theresa first appeared to me in 1968, Heaven was conducting locutions with me and my Raymond, and one more individual, Carol M. during this time.

Now Carol and I were alone at the time, I believe. Heaven, through a - "locution'' is the word they use - would speak to me, and Carol would write it down.

And also present at times was Robert F., the young man who received the miraculous photograph of "Jacinta 1972". Robert F. was one of our early workers, and he lived in Bayside, the St. Robert Bellarmine Parish. I have often written to the Chancery and the Reverend Fathers of St. Robert's to go and speak with Robert F. and ask him how his wonderful photograph was taken; and they would

understand that it was not a fraud, or could (not) be repeated, as was written in The Long Island Press.

But there was a Bill Wuest, a photographer for the Long Island Press, that said that he could duplicate the "Jacinta 1972" picture. Well, factually he couldn't. I had asked the reporter, a Mr. Gershowitz, I believe his name was, to go and speak with Robert F. Robert F. must have told him exactly how miraculously he had received this picture "Jacinta 1972'' from out of nowhere, so to say. But instead of accepting the truth, when he took it back, perhaps to his editors of the Press and the photographer, a Bill Wuest, they proceeded to make it look very foolish and reprinted a picture of Bill Wuest sitting on a stool, as I remember correctly. And written across the picture was ''Bill Wuest '72," or something like that, a mockery.

Whereas, when I called the reporter and asked for a copy of his photograph, he couldn't give me one. And he hemmed and hawed about it. I told him, l said, ''You couldn't reproduce that, because it was only produced by Heaven. And it was electrostatically written; you can see that. There was depth and color that was not brought out in the Long Island Press. There was no similarity at all, except in black and white - whatever you did by writing 'Bill Wuest.'''

To a public - a public could be deluded to say they look alike; but let us see the originals, which they never have shown. They were the ones that did the trickery in the picture, because the "Jacinta 1972" photograph was taken in a manner that was absolutely supernatural. And I think it's time that I place this on tape for everyone to know.

Robert wanted to please them, so he got his camera he was carrying at the time. (I'm not sure whether he had a camera with him, or whether he went back to his car and got it, because Robert F. used to have a small little Corvette. You know, one of those small cars. I rode one time in it with him; he took me somewhere.) And he said he would take this photograph.

When he took the photograph, the way he would explain it to you, as he has explained it to Brother Frost - and many other people, l would assume - is: this is exactly what happened. He had a Polaroid camera, the kind where you had to pull out the picture. (You know, the old-fashioned ones, now, not like the SX-70's. but the kind that you had to pull out the picture. wait sixty seconds or so, and then pull the cover off.) And so he had pulled out his picture and set the timer for sixty seconds, like you do (that little round thing on the end of the camera). And all of sudden, as he held the picture out, he felt - he heard a snap, a crack, and he felt like his fingers that were holding the picture had been hit by an electrical current.

Well, it happened so suddenly and so fast that he thought at first that perhaps, oh, what I'm hearing is the ticking of the sixty seconds off on the camera (you know, as the little knob turned off the sixty seconds until the picture was finished). But he felt electricity, he said, go through his fingers. Yet there was no electrical storm or anything taking place. Well, after he waited he tore off the cover of the picture.

Oh, but Clara Kreitmeyer at that time was waiting anxiously to receive the picture that he had taken. But whatever happened, she said, Robert looked at the picture and he turned pale as a ghost, dropped the picture, and ran. And I believe, if I could go see Clara to hear the whole story of what happened again, that he dropped the camera also, and ran. But then, as he started to leave (it shocked him so, whatever was on that picture) he changed his mind, came back, picked up the picture and the camera, and ran.

Well, what happened is, that picture - and Clara Kreitmeyer will testify to this - that picture had writing on it, writing ''Jacinta 1972.'' Now he was standing on the sidewalk to take this picture of the ladies praying the Rosary, facing the statue. So you can imagine (and I can, too, even ten years later the shock it

The "Jacinta 72" photo that Robert F. took on September 14,1971. Jacinta, the child-seer of Fatima (inset), appeared to Veronica at a vigil, to confirm that she had written the message on the picture. She wanted to draw attention to the prophecy that she had made before her death concerning the year 1972. The date refers to the year of the takeover of Pope Paul VI's reign by Satan and his agents through faithless members of the Curia. Also, in the wording "Jacinta" is found the hour, day, month and year of the Chastisement to befall mankind.

was to him to take a picture of Our Lady's statue and five ladies, and finding writing come out on the picture, something that is almost an impossibility in our human nature. And it said, J - A - C - I - N - T- A, and underneath, 1-9-7-2.

Well, I received in the mail from Robert F. about two days later just enough time to drop it - he must have dropped that picture in the mail. He addressed it to me immediately at my home, and I received the picture in the mail. And at that time, I believe I could call him on the telephone (though his phone is unlisted in 1980; I guess others have been calling about his picture) and he explained how he got it. Of course, I already knew this at the time, because Clara Kreitmeyer was with us still in the work. She had already explained what had happened.

Fatima and the Third Secret

And then I started to ask around about Jacinta of Fatima, and I soon found out why that picture was given. And throughout the years we have held that picture and have tried to share it with the world.

And, of course, in order to know the full extent of that photograph miraculous, you must also know about Fatima. One of Our Lady's appearances in the world was at Fatima, in Portugal, in which She also gave warnings - warnings that all came true - and one warning that was kept hidden. And the fact that it was kept hidden has brought about so much chaos in the world and the Church today. It should never have remained hidden, Our Lady said. However, that is another story.

For all who are familiar with Fatima and other appearances of Our Lady such as at La Salette, that I have recently learned of - would you kindly, for your own enlightenment, read of Our Lady's appearances at Fatima and La Salette and you will understand why, also, Our Lady came to Bayside.

COMING BACK TO THE DATE of January 23, 1971: Carol M. was in my apartment, and Jesus appeared to me. And I asked Him where Lucifer was now.

(He had formerly spoken of Lucifer being upon earth. coming to earth, and how much control he has over the human race because of the weak spirit that the human has accepted or brought upon himself - the spirit, the soul, the major living force within the human body.)

I asked Jesus about His directing me to bar the doors to all but my immediate family and close workers, who were few at the time. One was Carol M. Jesus had said at the time that I must be extra careful by prayer, to guard myself well with prayer - and remain alone except for the few He has chosen to be with me, because I must see that and make sure that Lucifer cannot enter (or one of his agents) into my house when Jesus is distracted elsewhere.

And I couldn't understand why He said, ''No but'' (I'm quoting directly from the note) ''but he can be let into your house when I am distracted elsewhere." And I thought to myself, distracted elsewhere? So human-like and so wonderfully like our own human nature did Jesus speak with us during those years, in locution, that I said, "Oh, distracted elsewhere? You? I didn't understand that You could be distracted anywhere.'' And Jesus answered, ''Yes. I can be busy elsewhere, but I still see and hear all.'' And I said to Him, ''Oh, but it should be so simple, as You are God, to just stop everything and not have to be distracted at all.'' And He said, quote, Jesus, "In the turmoil the world is in

today there is much work, even for Me." Oh, now that was really a tremendous statement. And I have to say here I was so sorry for Jesus that He would have so much work to do in this world today. You know, we had waited so long. I knew Jesus was to speak with us within several hours, and when He did, then Jesus said (I have it here. Everything I'm reading to you in quote is in typewriting because the Message was written on typewriter then.) Jesus said, "I was busied'' (b-u-s-i-e-d) - He didn't say busy, He said, "busied in the western part of the world."

The chosen three

And Jesus said that ''these notes I give you are only for the chosen three at this time." That was in 1971. The chosen three were Robert F., Carol M., and myself.

So that will tell you the beginning of these locutions at home and the other wonderful manifestations, which began on January 23, 1971. And they were private locutions. And Jesus had said at that time, ''Yes, the notes are only for the chosen three at this time. They are only for your own reference."

(I was to keep everything written down, because Jesus said that they would be needed in the future. And the future, of course, came years later - right now in the present, 1980. And I did refer to them several years later to get an exact quote to make sure that what was written in the Message - I couldn't understand fully one of Our Lady's and Jesus' messages - and I was flabbergasted to go back then to the old notes, as I referred them, and see, sure enough, in 1971 Jesus had several words that he used again during the Vigil. And it all then became so clear to me, the Mission from Heaven.)

The Antichrist visits St. Robert's

On January 23, 1971 - this may be difficult for many to understand - but Jesus had said that Antichrist will enter, is coming to St. Robert Bellarmine Church in the body of a priest. ''The priest," He said, quote, Jesus, ''the priest will not bring him (He will not come accompanied by another priest, but it will be Lucifer in him.), but he will come by

himself.''

I asked Jesus, "Why is he coming to St. Robert Bellarmine Church?" And Jesus answered, "Because to divide is to conquer."

If you will check back in the old messages of 1971, you will find there that the whole story was written of the visit of an antichrist priest, one who - perhaps he, himself, in his human nature, did not know that he had been, let us say, "taken over" by Lucifer himself. He had come to divide and conquer, which would mean to bring discord to St. Robert Bellarmine parish in some manner.

Now if you remember or did read the 1971 messages*, it's all there how the evening of the Vigil I was upon the grounds, and arrived very early.

Jesus, in the notes, the notes that have never been revealed to the world until this time, had told me that I was not to go to a certain Mass at St. Robert's because he (the Antichrist) would be there. And I said, "Well, I'm not afraid of him." And He said, Jesus, "Well, My child, you are only human. You will go to a Mass where he will not attend."

But a-ha! I made the mistake of repeating this to several people, what Jesus had told me.

(Now it's a very strange thing with the spirit world. They can only understand or know what you are going to do by your expression, or what you say out loud. They cannot read your mind. Even when you want to speak secretly with Jesus or Our Lady, you will quietly meditate in silent prayer.

Now prayer is very powerful, Jesus said, in dispersing any evil spirits about you, any agents of hell, or Lucifer himself. They have to run when you pray; they cannot stand the sound of prayer. It's like, to them, Jesus said, being clanged together with a couple of huge, oversized cymbals that are banging their ears. They must flee at the sound of prayer.

*Veronica arrived early because Our Lord told her that Antichrist would be in a black car, and she wanted to see if he would be there at the rectory. in order to get a good look at him. The Message or Our Lady. Feb. I, 1971 further stated about this man: ''Remember January 21, 1971. This was the day. My children, when the man of perdition came to your city and entered your holy Church. Now he moves about and will spread destruction throughout your land before he proceeds on to Egypt. Remember this date, My children. for it was a sad day for mankind. For what could be sadder than the entrance of the Antichrist into your land.''

Therefore, the human voice talking of something gives them full knowledge of what is taking place.)

So I had told several individuals that this - Antichrist in the body of this priest, whose name - at this time I'll only give initials, Father McL, Father McL. Well, Father McL was to say the Mass at such and such a time on Sunday at St. Robert's, and I would be there at the next Mass. I would avoid that Mass.

Father McL's Mass

Well, you can imagine my shock when I went to the later Mass and, as I walked down the aisle - I will never forget it - I looked from a distance, from the entrance to the church, you know, into the church, the main church, from the lobby. I saw this priest standing there at the side; the Mass had not started. But if I was ever looking at satan! I would say he looked the picture of satan, with his short, cropped beard, Van Dyke-like, black; black hair, all combed straight; in the vestments of a priest. And I was absolutely shocked!

During that Mass there were three members with us that I had spoken with - Robert F., the young man who had received the ''Jacinta 1972'' picture, Caroline S. and Clara Kreitmeyer.

But going back to the entrance to St. Robert Bellarmine Church, when the spirit of the Antichrist, the evil spirit, (Lucifer himself, I do believe now, after all these years, Lucifer himself) in the body of poor Father McL. Now what had happened is this.

(I may have told you before that Lucifer or the agents of hell now loosed on earth cannot read your minds, but they can know exactly what you intend to do, your plans, If you say them loudly, speak them: or they can watch your expression or your mannerisms. and they will know exactly how to thwart you. Therefore, you are to pray in quiet, secretly, to Jesus. You have like your hotline to Heaven, or, one could say. your own code system with Heaven by internal prayer, praying without sound, meditation with Jesus and Our Lady. Therefore, you have no interference from Lucifer, though group prayer and prayer itself is very powerful in dispelling demons from the room. That's why you must start all meetings with prayer: to dispel any evil forces, the evil forces being the agents out of hell that may be present during the meeting.

That is why, also, we must call upon Saint Michael always during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. because at the present time Lucifer and his agents have entered even upon Holy Church. Not only the lives and governments of the world. the lives of human beings and the governments of the world. but now he has the audacity to march into Jesus' Church in order to manipulate the people to try to destroy Jesus' House on earth.

However, you must understand this does not mean a condemnation of any individual in this terrible war of the spirits because, but for the grace of God, we may all say. there go you or I. Only God can save us from becoming an agent of hell. However. we have a free will, and with this free will God gives us the choice.)

Tricked by Father McL!

Now I mention free will for this reason. Before we entered St. Robert's to attend this Mass where the antichrist Father McL was to appear to say the Mass.... He had tricked us. You see, by me telling Caroline and Robert F. verbally that we must be careful and go to the next Mass because Father McL would be at the first Mass - well, when we came into the next Mass, there he was ready for us.

St. Michael

(Because I believe on the first part of this tape I told you that Jesus had already stated, and it is written in the notes to cover the conversations with Jesus in my apartment (these were locutions), that he was there to see me, also - Antichrist, we'll refer to him as Antichrist: Lucifer or his agents.

I believe today, in 1980, it was Lucifer himself in the body of Rev. McL now, since he is now upon earth, Lucifer. That was explained to you in the meaning of 666: Lucifer, satan and all of his agents now form the full force of 666, the man - a general term: man being man, woman, and governments, and the whole world's order of hell's workers, let's put it that way - those who are working now to bring about a godless nation and a godless world. a world of man, a world without God (which will never happen, of course, because God will not allow it; He'll allow it to go just so far and then will come the end.)

But every man and woman and child who is of the age of reasonable conscience will understand that he is being tested. These are the battling days, the end days, and we're all being tested. And we have to make our choice which side we're going to be on, because in the eventual ending of all of this, you'll either be with Jesus or with Lucifer; and that choice Is being given to every man, woman, and child. And these are the days now that the testing is being done.)

Now we entered St. Robert's - Robert F., Caroline S., and I - we all went together to find that we had been tricked. I had spoken verbally, and there he was at the second Mass, not the first one that he originally intended to say. Now as we went down, I warned them: ''Now whatever you do during Holy Communion, do not accept Communion at his hands, but go to one of the other Reverend Fathers. And do not look into his face!''

(Truly, I knew that Father McDonald, Father Dunne, Father Jurgensen, or Father McNulty, or some other visiting priest other than Father McL, would assist at Holy Communion, because they still knelt there at the time

So down we went. And the most amazing thing of all, and miraculous, is - (Just as Jesus had said that I was not to meet with him, with antichrist McL, and I said, "And why not?" ''Because," He said, "you are only human. I do not want you to meet with him.") -we had been tricked. I had not remembered, or dwelled upon, or prayed enough, to understand that Jesus said I am not to meet with him and to not speak out verbally. I hadn't learned a lesson then that things that are to remain secret from Lucifer are not spoken of verbally. You may write them and pass the notes, as long as he does not gain knowledge through verbal sounds or by your actions. He may know you're up to something, but if you're very careful he won't be able to read the notes - which you should tear up, burn, flush down the toilet, or anything else. And also cast holy water about the rooms, and make sure that you pray constantly in between your meeting.

And somewhere we had slipped, because there he was. He knew, then, that we knew he was going to be at the other Mass, so Lucifer, in his body, switched to the role of the Mass that we appeared at.

All right. So when I spotted him I knew instantly who he was, even before we started down the aisle. And I said to Robert F. and Caroline, ''Whatever you do, do not receive Communion from him. Be certain of that.'' So down we went.

(Now this must have been the second meeting with Father McL, because he stayed over a week or so at St. Robert's. if I'm not mistaken. I'm trying to remember back. It's 1971, January.)

And then, I remember, the most important thing was this, that several times I thought I would be courageous enough to get a good look at him, at his face; but it was impossible. And the same thing happened to Caroline S. We were unable to look at him. All I could see were his vestments and his shoes because a mist, a veil, a covering was placed before our face, our eyes. We were like blinded. We couldn't look into his face, we were not to look into his face.

The sad fate of Robert F.

And I don't know - I never questioned Robert F. about this, due to the fact of what happened (I will tell you in a few moments) to Robert F.

But I do recall, also, that before the Mass started - we had seated ourselves about half-way up the aisle in the pew, the three of us, and before the Mass started I looked to the left. And we could not see his face due to this type of grayish-white veil, like a mist, that was before our eyes, and we couldn't see Father McL's face.

But the Mass itself, the service, had started. And there was the banging of guitars and a number, a piece of music I'd never heard before. And then as we watched, I was startled to see Father McL come in from the left side of the doorway, the doorway you come through, and up towards the altar, which had the railing then. And he was snapping his fingers and keeping time to the music. I can still see his right hand going, snapping his fingers, keeping good time to the music of the strumming guitars and the beat of the music as he headed for the altar, with two altar boys behind him.

Well, I was in a state of shock because as I was watching his feet, I can still remember he had on black patent leather shoes with huge silver buckles; I've never forgotten his shoes.

And yet we were unable to see his face. And I whispered to Caroline, "Don't look into his face." And she said, "I can't look anyway. There's something before my face. I can't see him anyway So Caroline. also, was being protected by Heaven.

Robert F. receives from Fr. McL

Now when it came time for Holy Communion we made sure, Caroline and I, that we did not receive from Father McL. But I was in a state of sheer shock when I saw Robert F. go towards him. And I really shook in shock, in fright. I didn't know what had happened, how he could do that, after we had spoken so much about being sure to avoid him.

Well when we came out after the Mass, I asked Robert F., "Why did you go to him?'' And Robert F. - innocently, I do believe, innocently - said (because he was one of the most devout, dedicated workers for Our Lady, and, of course, Heaven allowed him to be the Instrument for receiving the ''Jacinta 1972'' photograph), ''Well," he said, "I thought maybe whatever was in him maybe left by now." I said, "You - as a human, you cannot take that chance unless you get direct notification from Heaven, from Jesus." I said, ''You are like treading where angels fear to tread. It's like rushing into something that will get you into trouble. You avoid all occasions of evil," I said, ''and you know very well who he is." And he said, ''Well, I didn't know that.'' And he stammered. Robert said he thought that Lucifer was out of him (Fr. McL) by now.

So we went home. That was a Sunday; I've never forgotten it. Only a theologian will understand this, and perhaps another individual inspired by God will understand this, but whatever happened when Robert F. accepted the Host from Father McL - something happened to him. Because that Tuesday evening he came over to my apartment. We were to do some work, some drawings for a cover or something. (And Robert F. always drew beautifully - he was very optimistic in nature - beautiful drawings of Our Lady and everything, for our rubber stamps, etc.) But as he came in the door, I'll never forget - and whoever was in the apartment at that time; I don't know if it was Caroline, or Ben, and Mary S., but several people were in the apartment at the time - and they also had the same reaction

and feeling of distress that hit me. Because as Bob walked in, I looked into his face and I felt that - his eyes, there was something about his eyes. His eyes, if I remember, were a blue color, or - well, whether they were blue or brown, now his eyes were like two black pools of nothingness. He had changed. There was something wrong, I knew it instantly. His eyes - whatever had happened, this was not the Robert F. that we knew two days ago. I saw in his eyes, absolute - like blankness. Black they were, the color, like deep pools of nothingness. No human words could describe what we saw in his face.

He came in with a sort of a casual air about him. And from that day on it was like he was gone. And as you know, from that time on he drifted away. With all of the closeness, with all of the miracles that he saw, even to being given the "Jacinta 1972'' photograph, he drifted away. He returned once, but then after the newspaper article in the [Long Island] Press, being a shy fellow, he did not want to be exposed to any publicity, or anything of the trials that are necessary for the propagation of Heaven's Message.

Well, he's no longer with us, of course, and hasn't been for several years, which, sadly, was a great sorrow for all of us, because he was a very close worker.

(However, you can perhaps now understand about the forces that are loosed upon earth now, Lucifer and his agents. All hell is open now, and all of the demons are loose from hell; and they enter into the bodies of any man, woman, or child who has fallen out of grace, and will do, then, the will of Lucifer.

And if you ask why is there such a horrible change in the last maybe twenty years in the world, it is only because you're in the latter days now, and Heaven is going to allow you to do battle against Lucifer and his armies. It is the days spoken of and written of in the Bible. It is the days given by the prophets in the past that were to be fought.

The Zeitoun Apparitions in Egypt

But, you see, they could have been for the future if only man had listened in the past to the warnings of the prophets, and to the warnings of the seers, and to the warnings given by Our Lady in Her past visits to earth.)

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You know, even when Our Lady appeared in Egypt - over one hundred visitations - I don't believe there was more than one write-up that I know of given in the United States about Our Lady's appearances. Yet hundreds and thousands of people saw Our Lady at Zeitoun, in Egypt, over a Coptic church.

I, myself, have photographs given to me by a very kind lady who flew over there and took the pictures of Our Lady as She bowed to everyone over the church of Zeitoun, St. Mary's Church, in Zeitoun, Egypt. And I can't understand the silence, why it was kept so silent.

But I can understand, then, why it's trying to be silenced here in the United States. And yet there were one hundred appearances of Our Lady (in Zeitoun). And many people ask me, even today after all these years, ''Well, wouldn't it be much simpler if Our Lady just appeared to everyone?"

Would it be really much simpler? Because look what happened in Egypt! Our Lady appeared to everyone. People flew in from all over the world. Photographs were taken of Our Lady appearing over the Coptic church. But yet, the western world - I mean the United States, North America - where was it written of? Only a priest wrote a book on it.

Father Palmer, I believe. But the media's, the televisions? This was in the sixties, I believe, and they did not broadcast this wondrous appearance.

So what can we expect in the United States? A reign of silence, a curtain put down. So even if Our Lady appeared at St. Robert's, what treatment would She get? Perhaps the same, She knows, as at Egypt.

Many saw Our Lady at Vigil in 1973

So, of course, I, myself, would love to see Our Lady appear to everyone - though She did, you understand. Our Lady appeared to over fifty to seventy-five people, including one, of course, very close to our work. Ann Ferguson [Veronica's personal secretary] was there at the time, and many others who saw Our Lady holding the Infant Jesus in Her arms.

This was shortly before the Vigil was to take place, back in 1973. But Our Lady appeared to everyone on the grounds. Ann Ferguson saw Our Lady holding the Infant Jesus on December 7, 1973. At least 200 people were present. Newspapers carried the story.

And I tried to get someone to come out of the church, because I remember I sent someone into the rectory, and out came running Father D. But Father D. rounded the side of the church and didn't even see Our Lady, as She disappeared into the sky. But as She disappeared into the sky, She moved to the right and became like a golden statuette. That's the only way I can explain it. But he didn't see anything; he got there too late, Father D. But it was to be. In God's will, it was to be. Fr. D. was not to see Her. I guess the grace wasn't given.

I can understand that. I guess Father D. couldn't see Our Lady because Heaven blinded him, didn't want him to, for some reason or other. But we should not try to figure this one out. Heaven has a plan for the whole Mission, and we just go along and follow the direction of Jesus and Our Lady.

But about poor Father D.... I think I had better go over this and tell you.

Rev. Father D. was a close friend of Rev. Fr. McL.

The next Mass, we attended the following week, Fr. D. and Fr. McL were in the little room off the altar - the sacristy. My son Raymond and I were in the first pew on the right side and could see in. Something was going on.

Father D. came out onto the altar, but as he stepped onto the altar area he stopped short as though he had been struck by something. The look on his face was shock - bewilderment. He made it up the stairs to the pulpit, but when he tried to speak his voice came out a low three screeches. He could not speak, but rustled some papers, coughed, and finally was able to speak. Fr. McL had done something to him. Only God knows. Both Raymond and I were shook up. I will never forget the expression on Rev. D.'s face!

When Rev. McL was at St. Robert's rectory, I decided to drive past the rectory around the corner. Jesus had said ''he" would come in a black car. I passed a black car parked in front of the

rectory, and came face to face with a horror! As I looked into the car he tried to pull back against the seat. But I saw his face. It was a gray-blue color, like someone who was dead. I heard the voice of Jesus say: "Mr. Death!" Then He said, ''You have seen a dead soul." It was Fr. McL. It scared me half to death!

Jesus also said Fr. McL came to Saint Robert's to get a look at me, also. During the time when Father McL was at St. Robert's - (And I tried to do some tracing back. I found that Father McL was from Immaculate Conception Seminary in Douglaston.* That's where he resided. Maybe he was a teacher. I'm not sure, but he was from Douglaston.)

*Immaculate Conception Seminary in Douglaston, New York is now called Cathedral College of the Immaculate Conception.

Now I WOULD LIKE TO READ to you one of the conversations placed on paper (and they were to be placed [on paper] because God, Jesus, wants the world to know His feelings and His direction to mankind. And using only we humans as instruments can He do this, though nothing is impossible to God.)

But I want to read to you because I, too, will enjoy going back through the years. I haven't read these notes in all these years, this book in particular. So I will try to read it now as it was typed. Some of the spelling and everything is very strange. To photograph for you the copies would be easier, but I will read them, because, perhaps the copies you may not understand because of the spelling and all.

"You were told, My child, to beware of those outside your household. Your heart overrules your God-given common sense. Wake up before you suffer much. Why do you care for those who make jest'' (j-e-s-t, that would make fun) ''of you. Is not My word to you sufficient?

''Yes, Antichrist, he has left.'' (That must have been the St. Robert area temporarily.) "He has left, but he is persistent, coming to you in many forms.'' (That's Lucifer - you know, Lucifer.) "Close the outside door. Someone is there now." (Because Jesus had asked me to bar my doors. But it seemed like the family liked to have a lot of fresh air.)

"Your task will not be an easy one. What you are experiencing is not unusual. You must become more wise in the ways of the world. Your teacher must not, My child, be physical destruction. You are only mortal. Pray for souls. You cannot save them but by prayer. You are only mortal. Pray more."

And I must tell you, even then (this was in 1971), He said, (you know, this is very personal, but I must tell you this anyway, because it's like baring my own personal soul and trials, even those within the family.) He said, ''Your daughter is being influenced by bad companions. Watch and beware. Her choice of friends should be limited. There are not many who travel in the light. The majority are in the darkness.''

"Seek not her companionship"

Now, "Carol,'' (Carol . . . was one of the first ones who came and wrote with us.) ''Carol, pray for her. My mercy knows no bounds.''

(Well, Carol M. was a strange person to be chosen by God to help with the work. But wasn't Mary Magdalen? Carol wore miniskirts, which I tried to talk her out of. Carol had an underlying knowledge of spirituality; however, she also had a worldly influence of creating the wrong impression upon people with the way she dressed and her style of living.)

However, if you notice Jesus said here, "Carol, pray for her. My mercy knows no bounds.

"Seek not her companionship, for hearts can be hardened and ears are deafened."

(You see, at that time Carol was beginning to drift away from the work. And there are other facts of her life that I prefer not to put on tape, that also caused her to drift away from the work.)

Now, ''Hearts are hardened and ears are deafened. These creatures called dumb (meaning animals (i.e.,) the dogs) are wiser than man, for God gives them senses.'' (You know, feelings.) "Hearken to the ears that hear, the sight that sees into the veil."

Now I didn't know exactly what Jesus meant. Though they are dumb creatures, animals - God made them subservient to man - but it is uncanny, the sensibility that animals have to ferret out something about human beings that is not right.

Let us say, perhaps, in God's plan He gave me two dogs. Though they were animals - called dumb animals because they don't speak - they had a degree of intelligence, it was obvious. And they also had a most uncanny knack, let us say, for knowing when someone of bad spirit was to come near my home. That is why Jesus said, "For God gives senses to them." (You know. senses. s-e-n-s-e-s.) ''Hearken to the ears that hear, the sight that sees into the veil."

(Now we don't know everything in God's creation. We know that animals were very well loved by St. Francis. Maybe one day St. Francis will tell us more about animals, and why he loved them so. Perhaps he had the balance of the secret of God and His love for animals.)

Jesus Warns Robert F.

Now here, also on the same page, Jesus gave a warning to Robert F. You see, when he went before Father McL at St. Robert's (and we didn't see him again, so to say; he became a different person - we knew it immediately) . . . Jesus tried to warn Bob, because here in writing is what I typed that Jesus told me to tell Bob as he sat there. I typed it out and then read it to him.

"Bob,'' (I'm reading right from the pages here) "do not wear yourself out, for I have extensive plans for you. Keep your heart turned to the light. The attacks will start on you soon. Have no fear. I am watching.

''Beware of your close associates. Say not a word of what you are told, for it is for your own safety. He is now everywhere." (Meaning Lucifer.) "Beware!''

Now obviously, Bob must have discussed about our going to Mass when Father McL would be there. (Lucifer in the body of a dead soul, or whatever theologians would call this phenomenon of something entering Father McL, and a very powerful one - Lucifer himself, I believe.) And Bob was being warned at that time that there would be an attack upon him.

But in some way or other he must not have heeded the warnings, or fell out of grace in some way: or used his own free will against God's warnings and then went up and received Communion from the individual, Father McL, and he was never the same since.

Now Jesus continued His conversation with me. It is written down here, ''Veronica, I am forced to limit your group."

(Now this was back in 1971.)

"Yes, My heart bleeds. How many will hear and turn away? Will there be any faith left when I come?

"Tomorrow be on your guard. Have courage. Listen only to My Mother. She will guide you at the Shrine.

Veronica warned of her neighbors

''But if I could but show you," now He said, "if I could but show you how they who call themselves friends, call you fool behind your back. Sort out the weeds, thy neighbors. Keep barred doors. They come to take your hospitality, and scorn. I shall send the destruction to gather them up."

(Now this was written in 1971. And, you know, though I am ill, it amazes me, really, reading these notes over, because how true it has all happened.

After reading the article in the magazine, the Rolling Stone magazine, where my neighbors - not all of them; one was very kind - but several of them wrote very derogatory things. And though much of it happened, I look back now and think it must have been penance, because I did not really accept at the time the thought that the neighbors were laughing at me with scorn. I had to learn it in time. It took a long time before I understood that the neighbors would accept me in this manner.

It's like I said, when you know you're telling the truth you feel that people would be able to just look at you and know you're telling the truth. But it doesn't really happen that way. But that's the way I felt it did happen.)

Anyway, He asked me to bar my doors. I didn't disobey Jesus' directive at that time. I did live a very retired life. I was so involved in trying to print, alone with a few workers, the messages and get them to the world, that it could have been a 24 hour-a-day mission.

Now, also, Jesus then went on. (These are direct quotes from what Jesus said to me; they were typed down. He wanted this all typed down years ago for a reason. And the reason is so clear now before my eyes - everything that happened, and why, the whole story.)

"Her pictures have eclipsed the whole scene"

I'll continue now with His quotes: ''Feel not sad, but the sad truth is that she is not with you.'' (Now He is talking about a worker. Now listen.) ''Her pictures have eclipsed the whole scene. Has she spread the Message at all, My child?" (Now this was in 1971.) "Has she asked for copies of the Message to give out? Sad to say, My child, she very seldom reads them. feel not upset.''

(I was upset, because I knew He was speaking of one of the first workers and photographers for Our Lady's work, and who got miraculous pictures, and the first person I approached - which I will only name by initials, E.M..... (In all fairness I don't think I should write out the name.)

And then Jesus continued, "I have not a wide field, Bob, to choose from." (You see, He was talking to Robert F. at that time, and I.) ''I have not a wide field, Bob, to choose from."

(At that time in '71, Jesus felt He didn't have a wide field to choose from, the workers. Now to choose - as They use that word, only Heaven can explain it. I told you that Jesus and Our Lady act very human and understandable when talking with a human.)

The millennium

"My child," He continued, ''all Heaven is in glee" (which means they are happy). ''Have We sent you a millennium?" (With it a question mark.) ''We do not seek to confuse you, but there are some things that are not revealed until the right moment. Have patience and gather the souls."

I believe when Jesus said that, He was referring to the fact that I was asking about something I had been hearing about - I think you call it millennium, or a period of a thousand years, or something like that, of peace.

And He smiled, and He said - I'll repeat it again, ''Have We sent you a millennium? We do not seek to confuse, but there are some things that are not revealed until the right moment. Have patience and gather the souls."

(In other words. don't get yourself confused or involved with trying to figure out this thing about a millennium - I don't know how to pronounce it - you know. that thousand years thing.)

So that you understand how well protected I was in the early years against Antichrist, Lucifer, entering the house in a human form, Jesus gave me each day a direction. It was Raymond and I, working with Jesus and Our Lady and Saint Michael together, which you hear in the advancing of the tapings here.

His reign began at age 24

But He did give me this message, quote, in relation to Antichrist: ''He began his reign at 24. He is now 31, going on 32. He is roaming now. He is going to approach you on Friday.'' (That means me, Veronica.) "Beware! Beware! He will come in a disguised form. Open your door to none without the exorcism I have given you. *

'He entered your city on January 21, 1971. He was in Albany first to promote the murderous evil of the killing of the young "

Abortion legalized in

Albany through Antichrist

(In other words, Jesus was saying, if you check back in history, that previous to .... January 21. 1971. he entered your city. which means he came to New York - Lucifer himself in the body of a man, and his agents with him. He was in Albany first to prompt the murderous evil of the killing of the young. Therefore. abortion was legalized because of Lucifer and his agents showing up in Albany and taking over the bodies of Influential individuals who are out of grace. without faith.)

On the next page we go to the date of February 3, 1971. I must have written a letter to St. Robert's at the time, which I will

*The exorcism as given by Jesus: ''If thou art a disciple of Hell I am to tell you: In God's name, begone! For there is only one true God, the Lord High God in Heaven!. And as for you: You will go back to satan and tell him these exact words that I have told you. In the name of the Father, the Son. and the Holy Ghost!"

try to find in all the back papers that I have, trusting that they haven't been lost.

Parish authorities scoff at warnings

about him

And this is what Jesus had me write: "They at St. Robert's were not moved to alertness by your letters. They handed them over in jest" (j-e-s-t) ''to the deceiver. Woe to this evil situation! Woe to the blindness of My clergy! My hand will fall heavy upon them.''

You see, when Jesus told me about the coming of the Antichrist into St. Robert's to bring discord and divide and conquer, I wrote a letter to Monsignor McDonald to alert him to this. And instead, obviously, this letter was given over - shown to Father McL as a big joke.

Now at the time I allowed a couple of visitors to my apartment. And it left me very spent and very upset emotionally, because they were unbelievers. And I find that to entertain unbelievers has also a debilitating effect upon me, because it drained me also, and it left me, naturally, upset. Because, Loving Jesus and Our Lady. and trying to do the best I can for them, when I meet with defeat - I pray, yes - but I still hurt very deeply.

And thus on February 3, 1971, the exact words of Jesus were these: ''Prepare for the battle for souls. You are a fine disciple."

I have here now, on the next page, another conversation with Jesus, given on February 11, 1971. Present at this time were Ben and Mary S., I believe, and myself. And I don't believe anyone else but Raymond was there. But Jesus had me write these very words. Quote, (I'm reading right here from the page)

''You are not ignorant of the world about you. The Holy Spirit works at My command. Remain in the state of grace and you will be guided in the light.

''Disperse the medals with extreme care."

''Be not concerned over the petty, minor illnesses of childhood, Mary. (That must have been for Mary S.) ''All life is governed by Me. I do not send very heavy crosses to children.

''Remember, Lucifer will try to break you down with fear. Coward as he is. he has a good tool, fear! There is nothing to fear but fear itself. Wear your armor, the Rosary and the medal.

''A hidden light surrounds you now. He will find it difficult to penetrate. Courageous will be My chosen souls in battle. Then I will bring down the kingdom to all the elect.''

This must be printed. This message, I feel, will give courage to all the world. It was given to me by Jesus on February 11, 1971. And I'm going to repeat it over, due to the fact that I find that sometimes the words are not printed exactly as Jesus has given them.

(I must see all written work before it's given to the world, for Jesus is perfection and the world must receive His words with perfection, with no changes.)

"You are not ignorant of the world about you. The Holy Spirit works at My commands. Remain in the state of grace and you will be guided in the light.

''Disperse the medals'' (the medals, m-e-d-a-l-s) ''with extreme care.

"Be not concerned over the petty, minor illnesses of childhood, Mary.'' (That's Mary S. at that time present, during this time.) "All life is governed by Me. I do not send very heavy crosses to children.

"Remember, Lucifer will try to break you down with fear. Coward as he is, he has a good tool, fear! There is nothing to fear but fear itself. Wear your armor, the Rosary and the medal.

"A hidden light surrounds you now. He (Lucifer) will find it difficult to penetrate. Courageous will be My chosen souls in battle. Then I will bring down the Kingdom to all the elect.''

Jesus, Prince of Martyrs

Saint Michael, on the next page, referred to Jesus as the Prince of Martyrs. And then he stated, "Holy Thursday feast day, 8:30'' and then he stated, Saint Michael, ''Little Prince of Martyrs, make us unto Thee."

On the next page is a drawing of a church. And all about it is a black band of mourning, like was worn years ago on the arms of a person - they wore a band around their arm, their upper arm, when someone died in their family. And underneath this drawing of the church it was written - we were told to write by Saint Michael, "Darkness in the House places a band of death upon the House. A Church in darkness wears a band of death about it."

AROUND THE SPRING AND SUMMER of 1971, Jesus then decided to use Raymond as an instrument to help me with the Mission from Heaven.

(Raymond did not find it difficult because. as myself, once you are taken over by Jesus and Our Lady it goes beyond your own free will. You just do it without any question. And joyfully you do it. because once you are given actual proof in vision and by manifestations: when God comes and practically - Jesus and Our Lady, and Theresa and others - come and live right in your home with you; and when a member of your family, like Raymond, is given the joy to see these manifestations, he, too, willingly will help Jesus and Our Lady. That may be difficult for some to understand, and yet others who will receive the grace will understand what I'm talking about.)

My son, Raymond, thirteen years of age, was with me when we received a message from Our Lady. This was around May 5, 1971. The date is right on the paper, May 5, 1971.

Our Lady said at the time, quote, to Raymond and I: "All is well. The Antichrist is gone. Have no more worry, for only the work for My Shrine needs to be done.

"I will talk to you on the nineteenth. End. No more for now, My child."

You see, Raymond was doing then the receiving of the Message. I was very ill. Though he was a writer for Jesus and heard much and saw much, Raymond did not like to attend the vigils, as a fact. Because he came once and he was most embarrassed that everyone rushed him and made a big fuss over him. And

Raymond was a very retiring boy. and this made him feel uncomfortable. And so knowing how he felt, I did not ask him to come to the vigils unless he professed a wish to go.

And it was God's plan, though, because as I became immersed in having to spend many hours in trying to print the Message and get the messages out I was very tired.

Veronica exhausted after

Vigil Message

(And receiving the Message as a voice box from Heaven has a tremendous strain on your vitality. The day after a Vigil I'm usually very dehydrated, very tired. Why the dehydration, I don't know. I could drink quarts of water the next day. Maybe some theologian or historian some day would be able to explain to me why I am so drained, so thirsty, and so absolutely tired the next day. Though I'm happy in emotion, physically I am exhausted.)

And Raymond, then, when Jesus asked him (that's another story I should tell you.) he said yes, he would write for me rather than Jesus talking directly to me.

(And then you would say: ''Well, being God, why didn't Jesus and Our Lady just talk through you, then, at that period of debilitation and revitalize you. so that He would talk directly to you? It just doesn't happen that way. I, myself, cannot explain it. God can do anything, but there are certain things that He has in His plan that none of us can understand. He allows you to suffer for a reason. So Raymond wrote during that time when I was debilitated.)

Now this message by Our Lady, where She stated, ''I will talk to you on the nineteenth,'' was given through my Raymond. He knew when he was to receive a message.

Our Lady. instead of speaking directly through me, at that time at the house, must have known the balance between the strain on the human body and what it sort of takes out of you, because this date of May 5 must have meant that on May 19 there must have been another Vigil coming up.

And I want to repeat it again, because they are the beautiful, exact words of the Blessed Mother, May 5, 1971. "All is well. The Antichrist is gone. Have no more worry. for only the work for My Shrine needs to be done. I will talk to you on the nineteenth. End."

When Raymond read it to me as I was lying down, I said to the Blessed Mother, ''Please, is there nothing more You want to tell me about?'' (You know, plans for the next Vigil, or anything like that.)

(Because when he said the nineteenth, Raymond didn't know there was going to be a Vigil on the nineteenth. There is no way he would have known, because he was not involved in watching the dates of the vigils or anything. He had his friends and his schooling. And after awhile he even shied away from writing; I'll explain that to you later.)

I asked Our Lady, inwardly, "Please, is there anything more that You could tell me that I need to know?" And Raymond rushed to the table and got out the typewriter. We had a typewriter on the table then, and he typed it out.

And without knowing that I was pleading with Our Lady for more information in relation to the work, he typed out: ''No more for now, My child." ''No more for now My child .''

Veronica tests Raymond

And I asked Raymond, ''The voice - (Raymond referred to his writing, writing this down, as the voice inside him, the voice.) ''The voice - as you wrote that . . ." (You see, I knew who it was, but I wanted to see the child's reaction, or hear how he explained it. I tested him, you know.) I said, ''You write this. How do you know where the writing is coming from?'' He said, "The voice, I know the voice.'' And I said, ''Well, what was the voice like this time?'' (You see, Jesus had had him write, Our Lady had had him write.) And he said, "The voice was much softer than usual.''

(You see, Jesus usually spoke through Raymond and had Raymond write with me. I tested him a few times by us being in different rooms, as I explained. But his messages generally were from Jesus.)

And he said to me, Raymond said, ''The voice was much softer than usual.'' And I had written in my own handwriting, "Naturally, it's our Mother." The voice - he said that the voice was much softer than usual.

(You see, when Saint Michael spoke through Raymond and I, or Jesus, it was a different sound; I can't explain it to you. Not a sound of ear, of feeling. There's no human way I can explain it to you, but you

know who they are because you're supposed to know, and you know! How do you know? That's God's given power - that He wants you to know, you're going to know! And there's no human way I can explain it to you. how you know. That's the power of God; He just makes you know.)

Now I have here another note from the books. On June 18, 1971, I was growing very tired, and Raymond (it's in his handwriting, which I treasure very much) was to write down the message given me by Jesus.

(Not one of the precious words must ever be lost. It will give you an insight, too. in the way Jesus talked. If only the world would accept the truth that I do have actual writings - the words. as I have been repeatedly telling the world since 1968; I have the actual words and the writings from Jesus. Our Lady and Saint Theresa.

And though Our Lady says, ''My own will know Me,'' I wish the whole world would know Her. But. of course. this is the struggle, and we have to go forward trying to bring these words to the world. And I'm sure we'll just let Heaven do the rest, because in 1980, with my health so poor, I'm growing so tired that we'll have to have others work the cause for Jesus. the Mission; and I'll do whatever I can, and as long as Jesus will allow me, or permit me to keep going.)

Now on June 18, it's written here, Raymond, twelve years of age - Raymond was twelve years old then. Now he wrote it down exactly. He and I were told the same thing, but Raymond wrote it down.

Veronica and Raymond: companionable spirits

(You see, it was a wonderful consolation and grace to me. When I saw Jesus and Our Lady it was one thing. but when someone else was allowed to see Them with me, it really made me feel very good. Because when someone else is seeing it, it's like you have companionable spirits and someone else to share the secrets. or this wonderful grace with you. You don't feel so - you never should feel alone, you have Jesus - but being human, it's nice to know that others have seen it, too.

It gives you more strength. too, and courage. Because as a human I still lack a lot of courage. And when Jesus chose Raymond. I was

very happy. And we became very close workers for Jesus during those several years before his death.)

Now this was June 18, 1971 - that would be the anniversary date of Our Lady appearing. And this is what Jesus said: (And Raymond wrote it; It's his writing. And I was there. too, but I didn't have to write. I must have been ill at that time, so Raymond had the pen and in his handwriting it states the very words of Jesus.)

''My child. I have warned the world. If they do not listen it will be they who'' (it looks like ''them'') ''who shall suffer.''

(Raymond had sort of a not quite legible handwriting.) My child. I have warned the world. If they do not listen, it will be them who shall suffer. (I would say ''they, ''but it looks like ''them'') ''who shall suffer, But the ones who do listen shall be gifted with grace. End.''

You see, I say e-n-d. ''end.'' I reveal to you now something that is not known except to very close workers. When Jesus gave a locution that was to be written down by Raymond or I and it was ended, He would say. ''End.'' E-n-d. That means there the message was ended.

Veronica tests Raymond again

In our talking with Jesus and Our Lady during that time, we were allowed to ask questions and receive answers from Them. And we've even tested it out. The most magnificent test of all - Raymond would go to the back, to the boys' bedroom, which was in the rear of the apartment, and I would sit in the living room by the table, by the door. And I would have a piece of paper and pen, and Raymond would be back there.

Now mind you, we both would ask inwardly, to Jesus - inwardly, mind you - a question. And Raymond and I would write identically the same answer given by Jesus - Raymond in his room, Jesus and I outside in the living room. It was unbelievable. You'd have to see this to believe. I know, like doubting Thomas's, no one would believe this.

How could I persevere? Because I had the proof. It was humanly impossible that Raymond and I could write down the same message, being in two different rooms.

Now I grew, then, tired. And Raymond came out after that message "But the ones who do listen shall be gifted with grace."

And I had asked, then, Jesus, inwardly, another message. And Raymond sat down with his pen. I said, ''Raymond, Mommy is going to ask Jesus something. You write down what He tells you.''

(I was very tired. This was like when vigils were being carried on. Holy Hours, and mail being answered. And I started with kidney trouble about '71. and my spine started to disintegrate around '71. and I seemed to be plagued with physical illnesses. And tiredness was one of the major crosses that was coming from debilitation from these illnesses.

And, also, the emotional impact of seeing what was happening to the world and how much it hurt Jesus and Our Lady - it had an effect on my emotions. which made me even iller.)

Signs will be given to the world

Now I asked Jesus, inwardly, ''Will You be giving signs to the world to help them understand that Our Lady is appearing at Bayside and speaking to the world - that this is coming from Heaven?"

Now look, Raymond didn't know, as I spoke inwardly to Jesus, what I was asking. But I have here, for anyone to see, his writing. And I'm reading now from the page - they're a little tattered because they are older. And Jesus replied, and it's written here, "True. It shall be done if you give it a little help. End."

In other words, I had asked Jesus, ''Will You give signs in any way to the people so that they will know that Our Lady is appearing there?''

(You know, along with the messages which I was trying at that time to get out with a hand mimeograph machine given to me by a person. a hand mimeograph - you know, the kind you turn - and I used to stay up; I guess that didn't help my health. I got very little sleep in the early years, because I would stay up very late trying to get all these messages out. And we use to put a long board across the living room from one chair to the other, and used to lay the pieces down and try to staple them into booklets. We had few workers in the beginning, and it became quite a problem trying to get some of these messages out - all the messages that Saint Theresa had given me.

But Jesus was helping us along with these private messages that were given through my family and others who were there. who will bear witness to what happened in the early years, something that has never been made known. But the witnesses are still living. all of them. to testify to these truths.)

So Jesus said, when I asked, ''Will You give signs so others will understand and believe?'' And He said, "True. It shall be done if you give it a little help.''

In other words, we will be directed, but we will have to also do our part.

How Veronica receives the Message

from Heaven

When Jesus appears He radiates a force of feeling so good that you are totally engulfed by this good feeling from head to toe. You - you float, almost, in exhilaration of feeling.

As He talks through you, He talks in a manner different than Our Lady. Jesus does not move His lips as Our Lady does. Jesus stares at me and His message comes out of me, I understand - from hearing the tapes and what people tell me in my unconscious state without my remembering Him even moving His lips. It's His eyes. His eyes I could never explain. They are absolutely beautiful. But they go right through me, it seems; I cannot explain it.

Now the angels are personages of Heaven, and they also have an effect on you. You could remain, you feel, forever in this state. Nothing on earth can equal the joy - the complete, encompassing goodness you feel in the presence of Our Lady and - Jesus, Our Lady, or the angels.

While in ecstasy you are weightless. You feel like you have no hands or legs, almost - you feel nothing, you feel out of yourself - unconscious.

There is no need for Jesus and our Mother to speak out. The words go back and forth, sort of mind to mind, spirit to spirit. That is the only way that I can explain it.

I've read to you most of this from the blue sheet of paper in one of the books given me, of the words given me by Jesus, to try to explain what happens upon the vigil grounds, when Jesus and Our Lady use me as an instrument, a voice box.